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Series 2, Episode 4 - Fabio Rodrigues, Founding Partner & CEO of U5 Marketing

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In Series 2, Episode #4 we hear from Fabio Rodrigues, Founding Partner & CEO of U5 Marketing and author of the book Na Dúvida Não Empreenda.

Website:
https://naoempreenda.com/en/should-you-startup/
https://u5marketing.com.br/

LinkedIn profile:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/fabiorod001/

In this episode we cover Fabio's journey from Senior executive at Microsoft and Nokia, to setting up his Marketing agency U5 marketing, to  writing his book 'Na Dúvida Não Empreenda' which is all about what you need to consider when creating your start up business.

We discuss Fabio's simple concepts of the challenges that the novice entrepreneur will face and that can bankrupt any new company.   His message is clear - you have a lot to lose - so think carefully before you make the jump into starting up a business!

Join us in this invaluable episode which I'm sure you will learn so much from! 

Host:  Biraj Nakarja
Co Hosts: Tijana Momirov & Pedro Guimarães

#neverstoplearning #followyourdreams #tribe

See more about Canopy events and Membership at : https://linktr.ee/CanopyCommunity


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UNKNOWN:

Music.

SPEAKER_02:

Welcome to Canopy Community's Founder Friday, the podcast series that brings real-life experiences and inspirational stories from founders and innovators across the globe. My name's Biraj Nekarja, and together with my co-hosts Tiana Momrov and Pedro Guimérez, we bring you a diverse group of founders from varying industries who've been kind enough to share with us their journeys and what makes them tick. We really hope you enjoy this episode, and so without further ado, let's dive in and get ready to learn. Hey guys, and welcome to another episode of the Canopy Founder Friday podcast series. I'm really, really excited this month to have the amazing Fabio Rodriguez join us as our guest. Fabio, welcome. And of course, we have Tiana and Pedro joining us as co-hosts today. Tiana, where are you in the world today? At

SPEAKER_05:

the moment, I'm

SPEAKER_02:

in Serbia. Tiana is always in some fantastic exotic places when she joins us. Pedro, how's Portugal doing today?

SPEAKER_00:

Well, it's great. It was planning to rain, but it's sunny, so good news. Great

SPEAKER_02:

stuff. And Fabio, you're also, actually, there's a connection with both Tiana and Pedro here because Fabio is actually Brazilian, but you are based in Portugal. That's right, Fabio?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I'm Brazilian Portuguese. I'm a Luso-Brasileiro. I live in Lisbon for Four years now, almost four years.

SPEAKER_02:

Fantastic. Fantastic. Well, it's fantastic to have you here. Guys, really looking forward to this one. Fabio has had and has an illustrious career, having worked in some really senior and executive positions for large multinational companies, including Microsoft and Nokia, but is currently the founder and CEO of U5 Marketing and also a... an award-winning, I guess, author as well with his new book that we're going to be talking a little bit more about today. I'm not going to try and do the actual Portuguese pronunciation. I'll leave that one to you, Fabio. No,

SPEAKER_01:

no, please, please do it. Okay, I'm going to

SPEAKER_02:

try that. I'm going to try. Let's give it a go and see if I can get this right because when we were doing the intros for the... For the podcast, I did try some Portuguese as well. And Pedro had to correct me slightly, but I think I kind of got there. It wasn't too bad. So let me try and see if I can get this right. So it's na dúvida, não empreenda.

SPEAKER_01:

Much better than I. Yeah? Not too

SPEAKER_02:

bad. Not too bad? Okay, fantastic. So the English translation, I was struggling with this one a little bit, but I think the best way that I can describe this is, if in doubt, don't do it. Is that probably a fair assumption?

UNKNOWN:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Perfect. I'm taking notes because I need help. Don't do it. And don't do it, we'll remit to Nike, right? So don't do it.

SPEAKER_02:

If in doubt, don't do

SPEAKER_01:

it. The literal non-existent verb translation would be while in doubt, do not start talking.

SPEAKER_04:

But

SPEAKER_01:

that doesn't make sense because it's not a verb. So I need help from Biraj and English native speaking people to help me with that. Thank you very much for that. Okay, fantastic. Well, maybe

SPEAKER_02:

at the end of this podcast, we may have another translation for your next book as well, possibly. Let's see. But Fabio, please, why don't you tell us a little bit more about yourself? Tell us a bit more about your background and how you got to starting U5, but also in particular, what made you write this book and what's your message behind the

SPEAKER_01:

book? Perfect. Perfect. Well, guys, thank you very much for having me. My name is Fabio Rodrigues. I'm Luso-Brasileiro, so I'm Brazilian and Portuguese. I'm Portuguese for the last 22 years, thanks to my grandmother. And I live in Portugal and Brazil. I have residence in both places and companies in both places. I decided to move to Portugal four years ago, almost like Tiana, to be a nomad, to be a digital nomad or to be an entrepreneur nomad that can live from everywhere. while making money in some places. That's my passion. My passion is to be an entrepreneur. But I used to be an executive prior to that. And I'm from Brasilia. Brasilia is the capital of Brazil. So it's a very political city. And everybody was born in Brasilia. Brasilia is a very new city. There's 1960. Everybody who was born there was teach to become an employee, especially for public service. to make a concurso, to make a, I don't know the name, concurso in English, to pass to get a place in a public company. And myself was not different. So I never dreamed about becoming an entrepreneur. No obstante, I don't know this word in English, but I used to sell products Candies in the school with 10 years old. I used to do parties at 15 years old at my mom's yard to make money for me, professional parties with 15 years old. So I had that vein as an entrepreneur, but it was far from my dream to become an entrepreneur. First day of first semester, first class of business administration university, my professor said, guys, please write down your book, but just for you, where do you want to be within 15 years? And there was no limit. I could put anything. And I wrote down, I want to be marketing director for Nike. Nike company. So, never in my mind, I was thinking about becoming an entrepreneur. So, I started my executive career. It went very well. I studied a lot. I struggled a lot. I put a lot of effort on things. And I became Nokia's sales director. with 29 years old. So I had a very nice career after Microsoft and things. But my time on Nokia went finished. My president, my boss, direct boss said, Fabio, you need to find a place to go Latin America or worldwide because here in Brazil, you've been to anything, it's going to finish. And my wife on that time was president, the country manager for AMD in Brazil. So there was no place for me to leave Brazil. And then Entrepreneurship came back to me, and I said, well, maybe now's the time to start a company. And we can discuss later the company that I opened, but it was an events company. And to open an events company, you need to be with, I don't know, two brains and four hearts, because events are very difficult to deal with. Not for me. But people taught my friends from Nokia that were acquired by Microsoft and were getting fired because Microsoft closed the telephone business. They started calling me because they started thinking that I was rich already and I had time to myself and that everything was very nice to me and my garden was green, very green. And started calling me for lunches. Fabão, Fabão is the augmentative for Fabio. Fabão, let's have lunch. Every time they called me for lunch, I knew what they wanted to talk about. And the first question was always, hey, man, are you rich already? I said, no. No, man, I was director. I had a very nice salary and bonus and stocks and these things. But now you have time for yourself. That's it. Mistake? I have a very crazy time that I can pick up my son to school three o'clock in the afternoon, but it means that in the night I have to work. Okay, but now I don't have bosses anymore. So another mistake, I have 10,000 bosses. Everybody's my bosses. Starting from the accountant, and then the lawyer, and then my employees, and then my customer, everybody's my boss now. I don't have time. And then I start figuring out that the one thing that I missed the most when I was an employee was one very tiny, simple thing called out of office. When you take a vacation and you write in your email, automatic reply, I'm out of office. Anything called to my employee, it is urgent called to my boss. That's the thing that I miss the most. Sorry to

SPEAKER_02:

interrupt. I really resonate with that because we've just had a bank holiday in the UK and bank holidays, I used to be excited about bank holidays because it meant I could get that out of office and it's a four-day holiday. Actually, bank holiday is just another day as an entrepreneur, right? There's no such thing as a bank holiday. Saturday and Sunday. Saturday and Sunday, exactly. It's the same thing. So I resonate. I resonate.

SPEAKER_00:

Sorry, Fabio, let me just add one. When I went from France, that became a motto for me. I'm always on vacation. I'm always at work.

SPEAKER_01:

Exactly. I can recall many, many, many times that I was... at my vacations somewhere in the world, in the beach, and a client called and I looked quickly for a place with no sound and said, hello, no, no, no, I'm here working. Where are you? No, no, actually I'm in a meeting. That's the noise, but go ahead, please talk. Trans. Very normal. Very regular. That's the day-by-day of entrepreneur. And the other thing that's a day-by-day is not having money because you're investing things, right? So until the company has money enough so you can take your money as a profit, it takes time. So we were always struggling and looking for friends and looking for the anxieties too high. But my friends were thinking that everything was fine. And they started calling me and saying, and they started telling me their business model for what they want to open because they're going to get fired. probably get fired, a few of them were. And I was astonished, I was very anguished, you know, when your heart shrinks. And I was very concerned by them, because they had children, because they had a lot of vision, addictions for the corporate world. They were used to use the corporate credit card. They were used to spend a lot of money in small things. Because when you have a very nice salary, you don't mind these things. But I'm going to make a few accounts in the next minutes. And you understand what I'm saying. Everything that you spend at a monthly basis is a lot. It doesn't care if it's€10 or€1,000, it's a lot within 12 months. So I was very, very concerned for them. And then I start telling them, come on, think better. Are you sure you want to start a business? What's your business model? What do you want to start? And then everything that I was listening was concerning for me. And I will start giving back them. Look, with me, it happened that way. With me, my transition worked that way. Not because I'm special. That's what happens to me. And that's what happened actually with 99% of entrepreneurs. And they start to take different decisions after what I said. Because of that, it became not a motto for me. It became a purpose for me to educate people what's going to happen after they decide to start a company. And there are two motivations for you to start a company. One, there's a vocational thing. There's a need-based thing. You need to start a company because you're unemployed or you don't have the means to make money. For both of them, there are easier ways to do that. There are more correct ways to do that. You can start doing things at your comfort zone, understand what you're doing, these things that we were discussing before. So I decided that I had to pass this message. Like, if you're still in doubt, don't start a company. Start buying something, only this, or represent something for a friend. But don't hire people. Don't buy the most expensive laptop. Don't hire a place. Just start doing some business. Learn how to work and live without a salary. It's very difficult to do that.

SPEAKER_04:

Every

SPEAKER_01:

day we wake up now fired. Entrepreneur wakes up every day fired. Need to find the money because they don't have employment, right? So that's my vocational thing now. Educate people on these things. But I'm very keen to entrepreneurship, okay? I love entrepreneurship. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05:

If I can follow up on that, I have a feeling that once a new founder of a startup goes into that machine of incubators, co-working spaces, accelerators, business mentors, investors, et cetera, et cetera, there are so many conversations and so many really great advices and learnings that these people are receiving from everybody around, the mentors, coaches, whoever. But almost never, there is a question is, should maybe your legit decision at this moment be to simply give up or pose these plans because it's just not realistic at the moment. It's almost always just never give up, follow your dreams, go further, go further. And in many cases, actually, I would say that it's legit to pose. It's one of those decisions that I say, proceed, pivot or pose. And that's part of entrepreneurship to make this decision at the right time. And this decision can sometimes be completely legit and actually the right thing to do. And it doesn't mean you're not an entrepreneur anymore, you're not successful anymore. Actually, you are just waiting for a better moment, better opportunity, and it's completely legit and it should be normalized. And in the world where Elon Musk is everybody's idol, I guess it's difficult to tell somebody, listen, maybe you should just give it a break or something like that.

SPEAKER_01:

That's perfect. Actually, I love what you're saying because I saw that you did the master's also in your thesis, but my master was in corporate science. And my thesis was on business plan. And I didn't do business plan because I love business plan. But by the other concept, people tend to torture the business plan to deliver the message they want to hear. And that's the worst thing you can do. A business plan or a business model is a validation of your idea and is there To kill the idea if the idea is bad. Don't try to torture or squeeze your business plan to make it work because that's not reality. The reality will prove you wrong. So what Tiana is saying for me, it's very strong because I'm a colleague of Tiana in Demium Accelerator here as a mentor. And people tend to have dreams and to make the dream fit the business plan. Come on, guys. It's the opposite. It's the other way around. Start doing the math. Start doing the idea. Yes, Pedro.

SPEAKER_00:

I resonate with everything you're just saying. And every time someone approaches me and talks about my career, Only for three years, and I have a 30-year long career, okay? Only for three years, I worked on a company that I didn't have a share, okay? It was my first job. Every time someone approaches me and says, I'm considering to start a business. And let's forget about this COVID and crisis and stuff.

UNKNOWN:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

I was asked the same. Does your company treat you well? Are you being paid by the end of the month? Is everything okay? Yeah, because people can be on the toxic environment or the company is run out of money or something. If they say yes, I say, okay. And do you have a passion to do whatever you are planning to do? Because what people don't know is what you're explaining, is that... I once heard someone say, if you're not ready to be punched on your face 24-7, you shouldn't be an entrepreneur. And having the will or having the need and squeezing the pen, as you said, it's in the end just a sad way of telling a lie to ourselves. Correct. And people should be, as Tiana said, be faced with the idea that if it fails, everything goes with me. So the value of death in the entrepreneur side is huge. It's a huge value of death. And people tend to forget that. So it's great that you have that passion and that vocation. And congrats to you. And I hope you are helping so many people. So having said that, did you ever actually help someone find that out?

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, thankfully, yes. Thank you, yes. The reason I actually wrote the book is because I felt that I was helping people actually. So I have a colleague in Nokia. His family was from a city called Franca in São Paulo, which is a shoemaker industry city. So everybody in the city knows the shoemaking process. But he was not on that thing. His family was. And he used to work with Nokia and services and and after sales and things for 15 years. He was very good at it. And he knew everybody in the industry of telecom. He knew the retailers, he knew the manufacturers as Nokia, he knew everybody. And when he was about to be fired from Microsoft, because Microsoft was killing the business, he called me and he wanted to open a shoe store. And I said, my friend, please tell me, have you ever been behind the balcony? No. So come on, that's the first mistake. Who's going to do everyday business 8 o'clock until 6 o'clock? I have a friend. Okay, second mistake. But is your friend also from the business? No. Third mistake. So I start pointing mistakes for him and saying, come on, you have an agenda on your phone, I don't know, with a thousand names. That's my son's sketch. You have an agenda on your phone with a thousand names. 500 of them are important in the industry of telecom. 200 of them are very important. 100 will pick up a call from you now. So why would you like to take your agenda and tear it apart and start a shoe business? When you're in trouble with your plan or with your cash flow, are you going to call the director from a very big company to go there and buy one pair of shoes? If he can help you to put you inside a very big company to sell something you actually understand about?

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

And then he starts making... Some funny faces. It was before COVID, so we could see each other and be with each other, the feeling. And he said, yeah, you're right. I'm going to think about it. He never opened a business. He started, he was unemployed for, I don't know, a few months. And then Samsung hired him. And he was very happy there with the salary, the 13 salary, 14 salary, the bonus. And then after two years, having a business, having money, having cash, he decided to start a business. Calmly. Thoughtfully. and then created his side business. So that was one example, the early example, that motivated me to write the book. After that, of course, I launched the book in 2018 in Brazil. And many, many lives after that. Many, many speeches after that. I truly believe I helped a lot of people. And then I decided to launch it in Portugal as well. And now I want to translate that in English as well and Spanish. And now I'm writing the second one. Because the first book is almost like an acid test for you to define if you have what it takes to start a company. And if you really want to start a company and become in this life of adventure with a lot of risks. The second one, I want to be the follow up. It's going to be all right. Now you pass the test. I really want to or need to open a business. So let me help you. Let's define your niche. Let's define your business. Let's define your product, service, or process. Let's start slowly. Let's invest less money. Let me make one map for you guys here. If you hire a person that you have to pay$1,000 per month in any currency,$1,000 per month, it's not going to be$1,000 per month. It's a little money. It's going to be 12,000 per year or 13,000 per year, right? It's a lot of money. But it's not 13,000 per year. It's going to be 60,000 that you have to gross revenue to have a net profit of 13,000 to pay that guy or that girl. So that one person that costs for you 1,000 a month actually costs you 60,000 or more in revenue so you can pay. So 1,000 is a lot of money. And that math goes for everything that you spend in your company. 100 megabytes internet or 200 megabytes internet. That 50 euro difference times 12 represents 8,000 euro that you have to net profit more, to gross more, to net profit that difference. And if you multiply that for every single process and expenditure that you have in your company, you understand that you need to start properly. You need to start with the least money or the least cost you can have. Because if you think about it very well, the net profit you're going to have is much more dependent on the costs than the revenue. Because the costs, you have the power to change. The revenue you don't have. You can't make your client buys and you can't make him pays because sometimes you sell but you don't

SPEAKER_04:

receive

SPEAKER_01:

or receive delayed. So you need to take care of your costs and that's the best way to start. So don't hire people, don't hire a computer, don't hire rooms, don't hire anything. Fancy cars. But my case was different because I was executive, so I was addicted to a lot of things, right? So I spend it all.

SPEAKER_02:

Fabio, do you think that's actually part of the problem? So is the problem people that have been in a salaried job that then wants to move into entrepreneurship. And that realization, as you say, of the expenses and paying for lunch when you go out and all that kind of thing, they're the things that people don't appreciate in terms of how much you need to make. But what about the converse of that, where someone has just finished their degree and they want to go straight into starting a business. They haven't fallen into those habits of spending that money. So what's your experience there? Have you been working with anyone that's literally straight out of

SPEAKER_01:

university? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I speak at a lot of universities in Brazil and a few here in Portugal. My advice to them is they don't have these bad habits as executives, but they have other bad habits. And as I was saying, they are now immersed in a culture of startups. Everything is a unicorn. Everything is the next Elon Musk. Everything is for yesterday. The famous word FOMO, fear of missing out. So I'm losing the opportunities to become a billionaire. And then start to meeting every Tuesday and Thursday night with his friend at Starbucks. And then starting to spend 30 euros per encounter, each one, every Tuesday and every Thursday. After six months, Each one of them spent already, I don't know, 500 euros or 1,000 euros in coffee, in donuts. But that doesn't go to their planning because it's not money from the company. But it is already money from the company, right? Yeah. So what I tell them is the first thing they ever have to make before creating a business model or a business idea or anything is create your own cash flow. Spreadsheet. The cash flow spreadsheet. Very simple one. I'm starting a business now. I don't know the business. I don't know the idea. I don't know anything, but I'm starting. Okay, so everything that you spend from today on is a right part of the business. It's the right part. People tend to believe in fake ideas that starting a business doesn't require funding or money. And listen to several people saying bad things like, I started my business with no money. With very little money. It's a lie. Because people are eating while opening a company. People are living under some roof while opening a company. Are paying their phone. Are using some clothes. All the money that you're spending while you're not making a salary is already part of the company you're opening. But you need to have two pockets. One pocket for your personal life. One pocket for your company. And it cannot be mixed. Because if it makes you break. But you need money. I would like to

SPEAKER_00:

hear your comment on something. When I first opened my company, when I opened my first company, the minimum capital required to do so was, I would say, 2,000 euros, something like that. Now you can open a company here in Portugal with zero euros, actually one euro. Okay. And have a name and website and everything else. And yes, everything else. And it costs like 200 euros if you do it online. I think that is a terrible sign for entrepreneurs. I would like to hear your comments on that.

SPEAKER_01:

Everything that comes to help those who understand the risks, I applaud. It's a nice thing. So I'd rather open a company with a zero or one euro than 2,000 euro. But that doesn't mean that I need to open a company, actually, because it's free. Because it's not free. I'm going to have a lot of costs. If I open a company for one euro, I still have to pay an accountant to make my bookings. That's going to cost 80 euros per month. Or I still have to pay my phone bills or things like this. And also, you don't actually have to have a company, a legit company, a NIF, as you say, a fiscal number, to start a company. You can start your idea first. You can test, validate your idea first. What's the process I use, everybody who wants to open a company in the most secure way? I work with something, or I know something, or I like something, or I'm a specialist in something. It's my comfort zone. So in that area, I want to identify something that's aching me, some pain that I can change, something that I can improve. It can either be a product, can be a service, or can be a process. If I can identify something that bothers me, it's a good start. And then I say, maybe this bothers Tiana also. Maybe it bothers Pedro also, that are in the same environment as me. OK? We are the group here. Hey, this thing bothers you also? I have a solution for this maybe. Would you buy if I produce that? Yes, I'll buy. How much will you pay? I'll pay two euros or 10 euros or 100 euros. All right. If you validate like that without spending anything so far, it's the best way you can start a business. Is it going to be your$1 million idea? Not necessarily, but it's going to be your first business. And then you will learn more things like living without a wage. a salary or how does it make to create profit profit is revenue less cost and you're going to learn how to live like this so you're gonna you're gonna you're gonna learn how to live dealing with these things struggling on the plates like turning the plates after that you're gonna become an entrepreneur and after that you can launch new ideas that's not even your comfort zone I love to give examples, but imagine that, I don't know, Biraj is a very nice chef, amateur chef. He loves to cook. He cooks every day for his family. Everybody says to him, Biraj, you're a wonderful chef. I'd love to go to your restaurant. And he knows everything about smells, everything about food, savoir, and everything else. But then he decides to open his restaurant. But he knows nothing about accountability, accountants, managing people, buying things, selling things, marketing, and all the things that he needs to know to open his restaurant. So it doesn't make sense. Because you are very good at one thing, you start doing other things. Because entrepreneurship is another thing. I'm going to give you another example. I always dreamed to be a soccer player, a football player. But I need to remember that being a football player, soccer player, it means actually 80%, 90% work and 10% playing Sunday at the big stadium. And that work might not be for me. For instance, I have to wake up every day, six o'clock in the morning, run 12 miles or 12 kilometers and go to the gym and taking hits from my colleagues and playing in the rain. If I make the first team, Sundays I'll play in the big stadium. But that's what really actually is playing soccer, playing football on a professional level. It's not Sundays in the stadium.

SPEAKER_02:

And there's the if there as well, because you can do all of those things

SPEAKER_01:

and you still may not

SPEAKER_02:

make it into the first

SPEAKER_01:

team. I need to remember everybody that 80% of every job or every career that you're going to choose is merely work.

SPEAKER_04:

It's

SPEAKER_01:

not what you were born for or that you love to do. If I was doing the things that I love, like being a chef, like being a chef, 80% of my day is going to be talking to the suppliers, going to be choosing the right garments for my waiters, hiring waiters, or talking to the accountants, and 20% is going to be me, myself, and I choosing the flavors.

UNKNOWN:

Hmm.

SPEAKER_01:

But that goes also for the developer. 80% of the time, the developer is not doing what he likes. He's doing somebody else's software, listening complaints and fulfilling forms that he doesn't like. Would you

SPEAKER_05:

say, Fabio, that you agree with that phrase, never turn your profession into profession?

SPEAKER_01:

No, I truly believe that because that 20% of the time is very important.

SPEAKER_05:

Okay,

SPEAKER_01:

so that's what makes everybody happy, right? But don't fool yourself, not you as people, don't fool yourselves thinking that because you're following your passion, you only work in your passion, with your passion, with passion. 80% of this is going to be work. If you follow your passion, open your company, you have to go to the accountant still. You have to go to lawyers, you have to understand about labor law

SPEAKER_00:

still. Fabio, one day someone asked me, what do you do? And I said, after thinking, after many times I asked the same question, I spent 70% of my time solving problems, most of which I did not cause.

SPEAKER_01:

That's

SPEAKER_00:

what I do. All the rest is what I like to do. That's

SPEAKER_01:

our everyday agenda, right? We plan the agenda for the next day, and the next day comes, 50% is different. Always different. That's it. So, answering your question, Tiana, I really believe people should look to work with pleasure. Not with pleasure, with what they are passionate about. But instead of that, try to put passion on everything you're doing. Because life's so difficult. And you can make money in so many different ways. I truly believe that the difference between an empresario and an entrepreneur, so people that have business and an entrepreneur, is a different compassion. I am an entrepreneur, so if somebody brings me a business model that makes sense, that makes money to create warms for fishing, a warming farm, I don't understand, I don't like it. I go make this money. It's a good business because I like the business. But some other people will say, oh, come on, worms. I don't like that. I only like cooking. All right. So go cooking. So go for your passion. But knowing that 80% of your passion will still be merely work and 20% passion. And if you don't work with a passion, find passion where you work. Try to change something. Try to be creative. And that's entrepreneurship as well. That's the pure definition of entrepreneurship. Create something out of nowhere. Create something that has risks, but out of nowhere. It can be a tiny process. I work as a helper of a CFO of a company. All right, let's improve the flip chart, the spreadsheet. Let's create some process there that will increase the productivity. Yeah. That's entrepreneurship. That's entrepreneurship. Entrepreneurship does not open your company. You need to educate people about that. And also, I think

SPEAKER_05:

there is a little bit of confusion that entrepreneurship is something new and cool. Actually, entrepreneurship has been around since the Homo sapiens is there, right? Exactly. Even a person in a little medieval village repairing shoes was actually solving some problem and decided that in this village they missed somebody repairing shoes. And I think nowadays there are a lot of things that you have to be this cool person in high tech, Silicon Valley, to be called an entrepreneur. And they're actually missing out on the opportunities where they can make a valuable impact in their own local environment and have a winning situation for themselves and in the community.

UNKNOWN:

I really like the point you made there about sticking to what you're good at. And as you know, Fabio, when we spoke last time in my coaching, I specifically coach on strengths. And the whole premise behind that is

SPEAKER_02:

Identify what you're naturally good at. and invest in those talents and turn them into strengths. And then don't be fixated on the things that you don't have or you're not good at. Instead, invest your time in the things that you are good at and make that even stronger. And I know in your book, you talk about the concepts, various different concepts, specifically around partners and partnerships. And I often tell my clients who are business owners, where is the the storyteller in your company, in your business, and you are the one that is the strongest when it comes to networking and speaking to people and selling that proposition, but you're spending 80% of your time doing the accounts in the back office, then you're not growing your business through your strengths. And therefore, figure out ways in which you can manage and navigate the things that you're not necessarily good at or that you don't have the passion and the motivation for, which could be, for example, the accounts. And how can you partner and collaborate with people so that that part of your business can be done for you whilst you focus all of that time that you would have been spending on the accounts going out there, networking, and growing your business? But as entrepreneurs... or actually I'm gonna rephrase that, as business owners, a lot of people feel like they have to do everything. So what's your advice for someone that is, Maybe starting off, and as you say, they haven't got the cash flow, they haven't got the money to be able to get someone to do this other stuff for them. How do they overcome that problem? Because maybe when you've got enough money that you can start to outsource or you can start to get other people to do the things that you're not good at, so you can focus on your strengths. At the beginning, if you haven't got that cash flow, what advice do you give to business owners at that stage?

SPEAKER_01:

Cash flow can be a problem when you have it as well. Before Before I answer your question, I want to give another example. When you buy a box of Q-tips, cotonetes, they always come very tight. You take two, and it's too tight. Next day, you take two, one for each ear, and it's too tight. After 15 days, you took 30, and then it starts to become fluffy. Where are all those Q-tips? Now it's fluffy. You don't see money going out. But after 30 days, after 60 days, you look at your bank account and say, where are all my money? Because we're spending this thing. So many times having much money or enough money is bad because you're going to spend wrongly. Especially because you're learning to do some things. Like you're just learning how to drive and they give you a Ferrari in the hand. You're going to crash. That's it. It's too much power for you. So if you have a lot of money, don't use it. Just spend. Keep there. Start slow. For people that doesn't have enough money, I'd rather have money, of course. What you have to do is find either a partner that complements what you don't have or partnerships that complement what you don't have. Avoid having many partners. It's bad because whenever this business, if it goes well, it starts to have a little profit. If you have to split it five ways or four ways, and I made that mistake, my company is called U5 because in Portuguese it translates to U5, U5 Socios, the five partners. I started five partners. It's a mistake because whenever you make a little profit, you have to split by five. It's not enough money for each one of them. Eventually, one of them is going to break a bankruptcy in personal level, and you're going to have to close the business. So as long as you can, be by your own or have one partner that complements you. So everybody's good in something and bad in other things. Find people that can attach to you and be the other part. So let's go back to the example of the chef, the chef of cuisine. I want to open my restaurant and I'm a very good chef. I'm going to partner myself with a business guy.

SPEAKER_02:

Yes.

SPEAKER_01:

Right? But it's going to be my actual partner, 50-50. No, depends on the proposition. If I'm putting the money, he's going to be 20%. Regardless if I'm a chef or I'm in the business. I put in the money, he's going to be 20%. Or maybe, or for a restaurant, as a partnership, I'm going to be receiving part of the profit that you're having. because I'm a famous guy or I was very good guy. So I'm going to receive more people. So there are ways for you to partner with somebody and be your own boss too. But normally, don't get five, six, or three partners, okay? Make partnerships with somebody.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I love that distinction between partner and partnerships. I think it's really important. Build partnerships

SPEAKER_01:

with people. It was very hard for me to find that word in English. I

SPEAKER_02:

love that. No, no, no. No, but honestly, I think that's really struck a chord with me because also I know you talk a lot about selling to your network and leveraging your network. If you can build the right partnerships, if I have... I have a network of a thousand people and I can build a partnership with you and you've got a network of 3000 people. Then all of a sudden, my partnership with you means that I can sell my proposition to 4000 people. You're opening me up to a number of people that I wouldn't have had access to unless we had built that partnership in the first place. And that's really important. But partnerships that are, as you say, complementary as opposed to the same. There's no point in me partnering with another chef. And by the way, just for the record, I can't cook. I just

SPEAKER_03:

wanted

SPEAKER_02:

to get that on the record. Two or three proposals now. Yeah, exactly. My wife's going to listen to this and say, what's this about a chef? I

SPEAKER_01:

don't know your life, but

SPEAKER_02:

But yeah, you're right. Partner with someone that has a different skill set, a different network and a different set of opportunities for your business that maybe you don't have. And that's how you can start to expand that network. For me, one thing I've really learned having left my corporate job is the power of networking. And I know you are familiar with BNI as well, Fabio. For me, power of networking has been huge actually for two reasons. One, running your own business can be a lonely thing as well.

SPEAKER_01:

Can be now. It

SPEAKER_02:

is

SPEAKER_01:

the

SPEAKER_02:

loneliness profession. Yeah, absolutely. And what I personally thrived upon when I was working is being around all of those people and having those social interactions. And so when I go to networking events and I'm part of the networking groups, that gives me that interaction that maybe I was missing in the corporate world. But at the same time, you just don't know who other people know. And we've got one person in our BNI group, for example. She's a style coach. And she essentially helps people from a confidence perspective through networking. how they look and how they feel and what they wear and things like that. She's got a really nice business. And I was talking to her and she said that her biggest referral came from a plumber. And I was like, okay, that's interesting. Tell me a bit more about that. And she just happened to have this one-to-one conversation with the plumber telling him about what she does and how she helps people. Anyway, it just so happens that this plumber tends to do work for a lot of the premiership footballers. And he was at a job at a premiership footballer's house, was speaking to the premiership footballer's wife. Give me the chills here. And all of a sudden, she was interested in something around style coaching. He said, oh, guess what? I know a style coach. Let me put you in contact. And she got one of her biggest contracts through a plumber who referred her. Amazing. How cool is that, right? Do you know Daryl?

SPEAKER_01:

Daryl Hammer, do you know him?

SPEAKER_02:

Yes, so Terry is going to be on our next episode.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I love the guy. You can talk my name to him. He's the owner of the BNI in Portugal, right? Yes. And he has a lot of branches in his things. He used to be a hairdresser. Ask him to start with the story, right? Because that's the most amazing story. He used to be a hairdresser, but he was a hairdresser for stars, for celebrities. So he always says this phrase, never underestimate the power of networking to people. Because I was a hairdresser, but if anybody would like to talk to stars, just talk to me. I also say it more, he says, you don't believe what people say while they're in the chair, having their hair washed. So he always gives this example. And I love the guy, I love the guy. So that's very important. When you have anything in your life, when you have 20 years old 18 years old you already have a network even if you don't believe you have is is your guys from the skating board is your guys from the surfing board is your guys from the jiu-jitsu class is your guys from the school everybody's your guys you already have some networking that can validate your idea even if they don't have money if you're doing something that are appealable for them, they will find money. Like if you were skateboarders with the guys and that thing, that piece always breaks and you found a solution that you imported from Australia, they're going to ask money for their mothers because they don't want that thing to break anymore. That's why it's very important to stay in your comfort zone and understanding what you're talking about. If somebody worked their whole life with the dentistry office or five years in there, This person understands the problems that happens with that specific machine. They understand how to clean up the environment because it needs to be sterilized. They understand the hazard of people that the schedule don't show up. They understand the pieces that takes too long to be delivered. All of those are problems that he can solve because he understands. And if he starts selling to his network of dentistry officers, he will speak on their slang. He will give examples that are appealing to the guy. So the guy's going to buy from him, not from the other guy. Because he was in the job. Because he was in the dentistry office industry. Because he was a skater. Because he was a chef. Not Biraj. Other chef. So that's why I always say, stay in your comfort zone. What's the problem? Don't believe in the people that say in the big stages, get out of your comfort zone. They are talking about being courageous. But don't be stupid, right? Everyone saw their whole life people jumping out of the planes, pulling a string, and the parachute opens. That doesn't mean that I know how to parachute. I need to take classes of that.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Because I need to go to good weather. I need to know how to fold the parachute for it to properly open. So don't believe that you already know something. And don't believe in people that say, just jump. No, no, I want to learn first before jump. How do I fold this thing, man? I don't want to. I need to open. Another example that I use to work a lot because it's very tangible to everybody. Everybody here has a father or mother or uncle that was driving the car since we were small. So you see people driving cars, steering wheels, changing gears every single day since we have five years old. that doesn't mean you know how to drive. But even if you know how to drive, you understood, so you go there, you don't know the loss of traffic lights. You don't know how traffic lights work, the signs, and you can get injured. You can get in an accident because you know how to drive, but you don't know the loss or the signs or the traffic light. So, and if you get in an accident, you can hurt yourself. You can even die. So there are some things that you can learn practically just looking, but there are a lot of things that you need to study. about being an entrepreneur. So go study, it's for free. Internet has a lot of free books, a lot of free people talking, but just don't believe in people that try to sell with motivation. It's because an entrepreneur needs to be self-motivated. Entrepreneur sells motivation, transpires motivation. That's why I say, if you're a doubt, maybe you should wait. Okay? So don't believe in people that say it's easy, that say it's now. You're going to miss the opportunity. Believe in people that say, look, let's go together. Let's find our niche. Let's start your business plan. That's why Damien, for instance, that Tiana works and myself as well, as mentors, works so well because in there, what they do, they find people and motivated people and then when they have the people, they find projects for them and then they mentor them. I think one of the most valuable things that you can find for entrepreneurship is a mentor. But don't be mistaken. A mentor is not somebody from the heaven. It's not somebody with 30 years experience and white beard. A mentor is somebody that knows the thing that you want better than you. It can be a 15-year-old boy. If I open a skateboard shop, I want as a mentor some young dude Let's skateboard with 15 years old and 10 years of skateboarding because he knows the thing that breaks.

SPEAKER_04:

He

SPEAKER_01:

knows what is important in the shopping for him. So Bill Gates has mentors. Bill Gates was starting a project on toilets. His mentor was an uneducated, compared to him, guy with 34 years old. Mentor for Bill Gates. So look for your uncle. Look for your brother, your friend that has a bakery shop for 20 years. That's the best mentor you can have. He knows about loss, labor loss. He knows about buying and selling things. He knows about margins. He knows about, I don't know, losing products because of vanity expiration. He knows about entrepreneurship better than the very famous guy on the stage that's saying to you, it's your opportunities now. Come on, look for your mentor, look for your uncle. So, Fabio,

SPEAKER_05:

where do you think this whole confusion comes from? Is it because always the winners try their history, so we always hear only the success stories? Or it's maybe the conspiracy of the investment side where they actually invest money in so many startups and for them it's important that just some of them succeed and the other ones can die out. It doesn't matter. It's going to pay off. So, where do you think this whole thing comes from?

SPEAKER_01:

Two main factors. The first factor is the anxiety of the human being. The human being wants to be successful. Human beings are seeing the other people's green grass, thinking that it's greener than his or that his pools are warmer than my pools. So people already have anxieties. And it's very easy to take on these anxieties to sell things. What is the business model of investment companies? I need to find 100 startups Two of them are going to do well. One is going to become a unicorn. And all my business model makes sense. I don't care about the 99 others. I really don't care. That's what they say. That's what they live for. And they are not shy to claim that. They say that out loud. I want 100 because 80 are going to bankrupt in one year. 20 are going to survive. And two are going to make me rich. But what if you are one of the 80? You're going to crash. You're going to be bankruptcy. So use them. as much as you can for mentorship, for money, for ideas, for a space to work. But don't believe in everything you hear. Talk to your uncle. I have an actual uncle called Arthur that had 25 years, many business. He was rich and poor, rich and poor, rich and poor a few times. And when I was trying to start my business, he called me Fabinho. That's the opposite. I was Fabão to my friends because I'm Fabinho. And Fabinho for him. Fabinho, you're going to open a business. Okay, who's going to be with you? Ah, myself, my sister, my wife, my friend, my friend. Five people. It's wrong. No, come on, uncle. I'm a sales director for Nokia. I have an MBA. I know what I'm doing. No, Fabinho, come on. Who's putting the money? Only me. So only you is putting the money. How is the division for the shares? 20 for each because I want to empower them. Fabinho. You're the only one putting money. You're making it wrong. I said, come on, I have an MBA. I speak English. We are the vanity. As Al Pacino said in that movie, The Devil's Advocate. In the end, he says, vanity is my favorite thing. You can get everybody by vanity. What is the easiest way to get a mentor? Make compliments to the guy. Or the girl says, oh, I envy you so much. I look up to you so much. The guy's going to tell you everything you need to know just because you use his or her vanity. You compliment. So use vanity for the people, but don't be fool to let them use your vanity as much, so much. You're going to become a unicorn. Oh yes, I will become. Give me your money. But inside know that's very hard to become a unicorn and start making real plans. That's the point.

SPEAKER_00:

Fabio, a comment and a question. The comment is, entrepreneurs, this is not mine, but I love it. Entrepreneurs are VCs, commodities.

SPEAKER_01:

Entrepreneurs

SPEAKER_00:

are VCs, commodities. commodities.

SPEAKER_01:

They are commodities for the VCs, yeah, for

SPEAKER_00:

sure. They need a lot of stock. The question is, and I resonate a lot with everything you said, and it makes a lot of sense to me in so many different ways, but I think that the most relevant, I would say, goal to become an entrepreneur is It's like the first step is to increase your self-awareness, is to look inside you. If you don't do it properly, you are on the path to fail on high speed, I would say, but I'm not cursing anyone, okay? And it seems that it's pretty much like what you do. You help people look inside and look deeper inside and deeper and deeper and deeper until they understand how they should start doing things, but doing on a very, I would say... clear and self-aware way and not running away from dreams and promises and stuff around. I would like to hear on that.

SPEAKER_01:

That's the biggest trick in here, Pedro. When I was doing my master's on business plan, my thesis on business plan, one thing that I found out, and actually it was the Damien channel, I interviewed a lot of people in Damien as well, is that the first concept of business plan everybody knows. Everybody knows. You say, do you know what is a business plan? Yeah, of course. Have you ever heard of the word business plan? Yeah, of course. Everybody knows. It's like, we call it in Brazil because everybody knows the name. And then, I say, okay, did you do A business plan for your company, for your startup? Two-thirds said yes. Yes, of course, because vanity. One-third said no, never. I don't believe in that. All right. And then I went to the next step. Okay, out of all these things that you can do prior to opening a startup or a company, what did you do? So it was a list for him or her to mark themselves. I couldn't touch it. And then the list was, did you make your marketing campaigns, marketing promotions? Did you study the product? price point? Did you start your costs? Did you start your suppliers? All the elements from an actual 50-page business plan. And they started checking. And what they found out was that the answer was pretty much the same. Everybody who said, I do and I know, didn't do and didn't know. All the people that said, I understand, didn't understand. And they all did the same thing. What was the same thing? If I was from finance area, I did very deep studies of financing, of price points and these things. If I was from a marketing background, I did a very nice study of branding, of campaigns and these things. So people tend to do best what they know already. Exactly. And that's exactly what you're saying, Pedro. They need to do the other thing. If I'm good at marketing, please don't study marketing in your marketing plan. Go study finance. Go study logistics. Go study development. Everything that I don't know yet. Because that's what lacks to me. That's where I'm bad at. So it was a regular 100% common thing to everybody on my study and my interviews. Everybody did a very deep process on that, on what they are already good at. And that's the problem, the main problem of starting a company. You're going to fail exactly on the small stones. Nobody trips on a big stone. The big stone is easy to see and converse. Everybody trips on a small stone. On a small, one centimeter difference high, right? So if I start studying everything that I do good, I'm going to trip in the finance. I'm going to trip on the marketing or anything else. So I 100% agree with you. And I urge people to study, to find education on what they are bad at. The improvement is going to be a lot. If I know something and study a lot, I'm going to increase 5%. But if I don't know anything and I study a lot, I'm going to increase 100% or 1,000%, right? Coming out of nowhere. If I study a lot, 1,000% increase. But if I'm already 100 to 101, it's going to be 1%. So go for what you don't. No. That's why it's important to go to your comfort zone. Because a lot of things you already know. A lot of things you are good at. And you have time to learn what you need to learn, actually. You don't need to learn more of what you know. You need to learn the things that are going to lack for you.

SPEAKER_05:

So Fabio, how do we decide between what we are lacking? something and between this ratio, how much we should learn in this field that we don't have so much knowledge or look for partnerships in that field? What would be the ratio there? How do we make the

SPEAKER_01:

decision? Actually, it's a very easy thing to understand if you are open to see this because what I don't like to do is where I'm the worst at. That's for sure. So if I don't like to do spreadsheets, if I don't like to do the financing things, that's exactly what I need to learn. So it's very easy. The things that you just don't like, you don't care, you don't want to see, that's exactly what you need to study, especially if you need somebody to do it for you later. You need to know how to talk to this person about that. You need to understand a little, at least, to be able to pass the test to other people. So it's very easy. If you want to send a lot of skating, chef, chef, chef, chef, chef, chef, chef. He knows how to cook, but he doesn't know the finance of the things. He needs to stop cooking and start learning finance for at least one month. That's why business schools exist. Not because they're going to teach you how to be an interpreter, but to give you the concepts of accounts, accountability, accountability. I hate to understand the concepts of accountants, but it's very important. So I need to study business and be annoyed and study at night to understand the concept of entrance and leaving. I don't know the term in English, but the receivings and pains. Yes. Partidas dobradas is going to be double, I don't know the name in English, but I need to understand that concept if I want to be a business owner. Yeah. Because I'm going to have to pay taxes. And that's a very important component of my pricing, of my margin, of my

SPEAKER_00:

cost. And for my liability also. If you don't pay them, you are in deep

SPEAKER_02:

trouble. Go

SPEAKER_01:

for where you don't like.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, but I guess the areas that you don't like, you don't have to study so much to the point where you become fantastic at that, enough so that you can manage and navigate those areas. And as you say, Fabio, be able to have a strong enough conversation with someone in that area. Perfect. Yeah, I'm really interested in this topic in particular, because going back to focus on your strengths, that doesn't mean ignore your weaknesses. That means bring your weaknesses up to a level where there's a foundational knowledge of what you're doing there, but not necessarily having to get it all the way to that

SPEAKER_01:

point. Excellent. Fantastic. Summarizing. Excellent summarizing. Fantastic. Fantastic. You're going to sell what you're good at. Yes. But you need not to bankruptcy because something that's very easy and you didn't see. Absolutely. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02:

Absolutely. Well, guys, you know, we could, we could talk for hours over this. I mean, I've really, really enjoyed today's conversation. Honestly, it's just, I love the examples as well. The parachute example, I think for me was a really good one there as well. You're not just going to jump out of a plane. You're going to learn how to jump out of that plane properly. And as we started the conversation around the translation, I'm going to put a new translation there maybe is if in doubt, don't jump.

SPEAKER_03:

if

SPEAKER_02:

you've got any doubt don't jump out of that plane learn how to jump out of the plane first if in doubt

SPEAKER_01:

or if you were in doubt if in doubt If in doubt, don't jump. All right.

SPEAKER_02:

So that's my gift to you today, Fabio. I'm going to put in that blackboard there. Absolutely. Absolutely. But in return, we've got obviously lots of viewers today who are either about to start or are in their entrepreneurial journeys. But I think everything that you've discussed today, regardless of where you are on that journey, I think there's learning that can be taken today. But if there was one piece of advice, and I know that you've got many, many key concepts in your book. And I highly recommend everyone that's listening to grab a copy of Fabio's book. It's really, really fantastic to learn and be able to implement in your businesses. But if you had to give one, just one key concept. What would be the one concept that you would share with our listeners as a final parting word?

SPEAKER_01:

Very easy for me to say that. Stay in your comfort zone. That summarizes everything we've been discussing for the last hour. Do something in the area that you know already. It doesn't have to be professional, but do something in the area you know already. Entrepreneurship is already too difficult for many factors. Don't try to make it more difficult. Jump into another area. Stay where you belong. It can be anything. And then create a product, a service, or a process to improve something. Fantastic. That's fantastic. Brilliant.

SPEAKER_02:

Fabio, that was such a great conversation. Like I said, I could go on for many hours because I think there's so much insight that you can provide. How can our listeners find you, get in contact with you if they wanted to? What's the best way for people to touch base with you, Fabio?

SPEAKER_01:

My LinkedIn page. and my Instagram are the same, FabioRod001. I'm going to write here. And the book is only in Portuguese so far, but I'm working on translating it to English and Spanish as soon as I can, as soon as I find somebody. So my LinkedIn and my Instagram are FabioRod001. Fantastic. 001.

SPEAKER_02:

001. Cool. We'll put that in the show notes as well so that people can have access to that as well. Guys, if any of you guys resonate with what Fabio is saying, I know Fabio does a lot of public speaking on this space as well. If you guys ever need or want Fabio to come along and have a chat to your networks, please feel free to reach out to him. You can always reach out to us as well. And guys, if you enjoyed this, please, I highly recommend sharing this with your friends, your family, your networks. I think so many people can resonate with this as well. Fabio, once again, huge thank you for coming on. I really appreciate another fantastic episode. Tiana, Pedro, any parting final words from you guys?

SPEAKER_05:

It's super valuable. Just thank you, Fabio, so much. And looking forward to the follow-ups.

SPEAKER_00:

Thank you very much. Thank you very much. It was a pleasure knowing you, Fabio. You are great. It was a great episode, Biraj, as usual. And congrats. And see you next month.

SPEAKER_01:

Fantastic. Very important job you're doing here, Biraj. Thank you very much, my friend.

SPEAKER_02:

No, no problems at all. Thank you. And it's for people like yourself that can come onto these and share their experiences. That's the whole purpose of Founder Friday. So, Fabio, thank you again. Really appreciate that. And thanks, everyone, for listening on this episode. See you next time. Bye, guys. Cheers.

UNKNOWN:

you

SPEAKER_02:

Thank you for listening to the Founder Friday podcast from Canopy Community. If you've enjoyed this episode, we'd really appreciate you leaving us a five-star review on your preferred listening platform and liking and sharing this podcast with your network. Canopy only exists because of the amazing hashtag tribe members who make our community so engaging. We really appreciate their support. If you'd like to join the tribe or have any recommendations for amazing founders or innovators for future episodes, please visit our website at www.canopy So all that's left to say is a huge thank you from me for listening in. We really look forward to you joining us on the next episode.

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