From Zero G Tests To Noise Free Meetings

We talk with Gianluca, CEO and co-founder of Metasonixx, about building acoustic privacy products that reduce noise while keeping light, transparency and airflow. We get into the real timeline of a university spin-out, the personal resilience required to survive cash flow lows, and why storytelling and theatre skills can make a technical founder stand out. 

• what “acoustic privacy” means in offices, homes and hospitality 
• turning university IP into a deep tech hardware product line 
• the practical timeline from 2018 research to 2024 sales 
• early hospital trials during lockdown and what clinicians cared about first 
• learning the language of startups as a technical founder 
• why entrepreneurship is learned by doing not just studying 
• theatre, breathing and storytelling as founder communication tools 
• pivoting from hospitals to offices and listening to customer reality 
• cash flow pressure and the need to grow as a founder first 
• advice for first-time founders on filtering unhelpful opinions

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Transcript

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Welcome And Season Finale Guest

Stewart Noakes 0:00

All right, fantastic. The final Founder Friday interview of this season and this series is with Gianluca. Great to have you here, my friend. Please, for those people, whoever they are that don't know who you are, please could you could you say who you are and what you do?

Gianluca Memoli 0:14

My name is Gianluca, uh, and I am the CEO of Metasonics. Uh, I'm the one of the two founders, and the uh my company uh sells acoustic privacy, which means you don't need to live in a noise environment anymore. You can bring light, transparency, uh airflow through solutions with you.

What Acoustic Privacy Actually Means

Stewart Noakes 0:40

Okay, so this was uh research dinner, right? This was from some sort of deep tech understanding.

Gianluca Memoli 0:46

Yes, it's a deep tech uh company because we started as uh from university. We started from university IP that we bought with shares, and then uh we started doing our own IP and our own uh building on top of that, so that we could uh transform a generic umbrella IP into products.

Stewart Noakes 1:09

Okay, and you know, uh my understanding is that these products were going to places like co-working spaces and stuff to create sound barriers. Where else do you use this stuff?

Gianluca Memoli 1:19

Uh we are we are also doing a secondary window, so something which would be more so what you described is a B2B solution. We also are doing a B2C solution, which is a um imagine you have a hot day and there is noise outside, and you don't want to close the window, but you don't want the noise. So we have something which is like a curtain, very thin, that will go in front of your window while maintaining transparency and the airflow. But interestingly, that will also go into restaurants uh along the seaside where they want to have uh Stewart's famous uh celebrations for his birthday, but not annoy the people around. And if we are very good, uh we will also manage to get them into hospitals where acoustic privacy is beneficial to patients, but not uh really there yet.

Stewart Noakes 2:18

Okay, fantastic, fantastic. Now, this startup has been going for a little while now. You know, what's the what's the timeline been like for you from getting access to the research through

Turning University IP Into Products

Stewart Noakes 2:28

to today? How many months, years, days is that?

Gianluca Memoli 2:30

And uh the research was available in 2018. Uh there was a long discussion among all the people uh who were involved in the game at the time, and typically this happens with a university startup. This is a distill distillation game. So eventually there is someone who actually wants to be there full-time all day. Uh and that was the period 2018-2019. We started the company in 2019, then lockdown arrived. And for someone who does hardware that reaches people, that makes things a bit more difficult. On the other hand, uh, that was our first chance of trying into hospitals. Uh, and uh we have been working based on that feedback for all these years up to now. So we cracked manufacturing in 2023, we started selling into offices, which are easier than hospitals, in 2024. And since then, the group the product-based uh revenue has increased, working with blue chip companies first, and then working with uh small legal companies which value acoustic privacy and uh how to say the the privacy of the customers. The scenario is always a communication like the one we are having, Stuart, where you are there and you don't want all the others around you to hear what you're saying.

Stewart Noakes 4:04

Okay. It'll be quite helpful to say because I'm in an open sort of co-working space.

Timeline From Research To Sales

Stewart Noakes 4:08

So I could put that screen around me right now and I wouldn't be bothering people.

Gianluca Memoli 4:11

Yes, and and and in fact, based on the feedback of people like you, we built a a yoga mat version of it that you can roll up, take around, mount it on your table, close it, and take away.

Stewart Noakes 4:26

Okay. So I know you're based in the UK now, but what's your background and uh how did you come to this university situation?

Gianluca Memoli 4:33

The act the accent is Italian, and the um I arrived in this country in the UK a lot of years ago. Um on the aftermath of my trying to be an astronaut. Eventually I came here for a very futuristic project uh already based on sound and noise. Uh and then I spent some time into a into the meteorological institute of the UK, where I learned that research is not in the universities alone, but a lot of the change is really done by companies. And so at that point, uh, when I had an idea that needed to start again, I went back to university because I needed some development. And then as the as the market was mature, or as as I got ideas from end users and I could put numbers on my forecast, I started the company.

Stewart Noakes 5:35

Now, for an Italian man, my stereotype is that you might not be as patient as you must have been to get through all this university stuff over your time. How do you navigate the length of time it takes to do all these things and to do the PhDs and to get the innovate UK funding and to go through these research

Handling Slow Progress As Founder

Stewart Noakes 5:53

discussions? How do you how do you master that?

Gianluca Memoli 5:56

Badly? Um, the the idea when you start a company, you really want to run. And whether you are uh Italian or Portuguese or British, anything that comes in the way seems to be delaying you. You really want the money soon, and you want to run with it, and you want to grow, and your idea is the best, and you have to make sure that everyone believes that. Um but the truth is that the customer and the end user is really deciding what they want, and they are very and it's not so clear, especially in acoustics, where we leave sound, we we we leave noise around us, you know,

From Italy To The UK

Gianluca Memoli 6:47

we survive it, we we we put headphones and that's it. So you navigate with uh maintaining your epithet, Peter Pan would have said, and keep it strong and making sure that uh to protect it even when things go badly. And we went very badly last year, we were almost close to close. Uh and again, a startup is always on the verge of that. You're always leave tight uh rope walking between success and failure, and that is an interesting uh situation to be. So, to answer your question, maybe that is how I navigate with the fact that it's a low roller coaster, and being on the roller coaster, you go up and down all the time, and once you have done the first two rounds, you know that that's the game.

The Italian PhD Competition System

Stewart Noakes 7:52

No, I remember you telling me about uh going to do your PhD and the process that there is in Italy for doing that. I think that's also a really interesting indicator of your patience and fortitude doing something like that. Are you able to explain to people who've never uh gone through the Italian system uh what you have to do there for those applications?

Gianluca Memoli 8:13

Uh in Italy at my time, uh doing the starting a PhD was a national competition. So what you had to do is you had to apply in different places, and then you went around and did an exam in every place, and the goal was to get into the uh be shortlisted in multiple places so that behind the scene there could be a negotiation saying, I take that guy, that I take that guy, I take that guy, and eventually you go uh into the one that you think is closest to what you want. And during my PhD search, I ended up finding a project which was completely different from what I thought was my best during the uh my thesis, my master thesis, but it was so fascinating that I decided, you know what, that's it. And in a way, that is the the jump that you do when you start a company. You know, that's it. I want to be in that, I want to be the person who makes a difference. And if every PhD is there to start to save the world, maybe doing a startup is similar. Uh there is a lot of um adjusting and pivoting during a PhD. You learn a lot uh that is not so much um what you do, but the resilience that will get you to the end. And again, there is a parallel between this and the journey of a founder. I don't know. Is that what you think, Stuart? What do you think?

Stewart Noakes 9:55

I mean, the age that you were doing the PhD and the process you had to go through, I mean, I just thought it was very uh arduous. It showed a lot of resilience, you know, and a lot of fortitude to get through it. I agree, there's a lot of parallels with being a founder, but I don't think I'd have been uh able at that age to have navigated a process like that. It was very interesting.

Astronaut Ambitions And Zero G Flights

Stewart Noakes 10:14

Now you've thrown me a seed at the start of this discussion, the whole uh astronaut thing. I think that might be worth explaining you if you're comfortable to do that.

Gianluca Memoli 10:23

Sure. The um so I said that I chose a PhD, which was completely different to what I was doing. Uh, and that's because when I entered the so they showed me the lab, I realized that they needed someone. So I'm a physicist by background, and the physicists are normally called when there is a question that no one else can answer. And more often I learned in my career when people don't know the question. And so your your job is to find the question and to solve it. Uh and the and the I was proposed a project which would take me on the vomit comet uh in uh two years. The vomit comet is a plane um that in the in the EU is uh managed by the European Space Agency, uh, where you do experiments in uh microgravity. So what happens is that you float while you're doing your experiment. Uh and I had in my career twice the pleasure of flying on the zero G plane by the European Space Agency. But to fly to net, to fly on it, you need to pass two-thirds of the exams that you go through when you want to become an astronaut. And at the time, uh I really wanted to be an astronaut, uh, but at the time, astronauts wanted are pilots mostly. Now astronauts are scientists. So when I didn't pass the piloting uh bit, uh I realized that I could be the other one in the long term and grow as a scientist more so that eventually I would reach the stars.

Stewart Noakes 12:09

Okay, amazing. Amazing. You've had multiple lifetimes already.

Gianluca Memoli 12:14

But I remember the the test. So one of the tests you is the you sit on a on a chair and uh it's a gyroscopic object. So it starts rotating in all the possible ways, and everybody knows that at some point you will vomit. The question is how long before it happens, and the other one is they bring you in an ipobaric chamber, which is a chamber where you write your name while they take away the oxygen, and so the question is at some point you will faint. The question is how long before you faint, how long you can do a task before you faint. Um, and that was uh extremely interesting. And also, when you have done the parabolic flight, you recognize uh you understand much better what the instructions that they give you on a plane, on the oxygen, and the uh what happens when they're you why you need to have your seat belts, etc. etc. But that's a different story now for today.

Stewart Noakes 13:16

Okay, fantastic.

Startup Jargon And Finding Your Gaps

Stewart Noakes 13:18

Well, so returning a little bit more directly to the founder stuff. You know, is is entrepreneurship in your background? Is it in your family's background? Were there other business people or um founders in your in your family?

Gianluca Memoli 13:31

No, no, one. Uh my father uh was a a clerk, so he worked, he was he he said from the start that I should do um economy as a career, and I said to him, No, I want to do physics, and he was disappointed until I started my own company, and he said, Aha! I told you. So, no, there was no one. Uh I and a lot, in fact, of the challenges at the at the start are the jargon. So you come as a technical founder. The first most difficult question that I heard was uh, what's uh your what's the cost to acquire a customer? I remember a conversation with uh an investor in the early days, and I had no clue what she was talking about. So a lot of the there is a lot of learning for a technical founder to actually enter in the language that you need to run a startup. That's why that's why a lot of startups that grow have someone who has a technical background and someone who has a non-technical background or maybe can join the language and fill the gaps together. It's a patchwork.

Stewart Noakes 14:53

Okay. And and do you think it would have helped you if uh oh no,

Founder Education Versus Real Work

Stewart Noakes 14:59

sorry. Well no, do you think it would have helped you if you'd done more founder education before you moved into the into the startup itself? Would there have been any any course or anything you could have learned from that would have enabled you to be ready?

Gianluca Memoli 15:12

So I did some after, Stuart. So you start the startup, you realize you need you have a gap, and you will search for courses. And what I'm doing now, so I did one with uh an accelerator in Bristol, I did one with Innovate UK. They are different degrees of uh being theoretical. Uh, no one really tells you the things that you learn on the floor, and that's why I'm returning this uh as uh also I I I give an entrepreneurship course now, uh as a way to tell people also the bad things that happen, the things that you don't expect, and no one tells you when they tell you the theory of entrepreneurship. Do you teach what's your what's your opinion? What's your experience in this, Stuart? You also teach entrepreneurship, don't you? In addition to being an exceptional mentor in doing this.

Stewart Noakes 16:11

Very kind, very kind. Um I think entrepreneurship is a verb, not a noun. I think you learn a lot by doing, but I think you can learn in safer environments than risking lots of people's money. So I think there are ways to do it. But I think a lot of the education is about creating the language rather than actually creating the skills. So I I really liked being able to teach at Balmouth because it was an experiential course and they allowed me to uh reshape the way we did assessments and stuff to be super, super practical. So, as an example, we moved um one of the uh modules where you had to finish your assessment ultimately was graded against a product demo, which previously had been graded against a plan for a product demo. So it was a very different evolution. And the founders, some of whom have gone on to raise money, and some of whom have gone on to be on TV and all sorts of things, were learning their skills there. And we also included not just giving a demo and being taught by me about how to do that, but we included from Falmouth specialist education in uh from theatre people. So actually, how to hold yourself, how to breathe, how to present, how to be authentically comfortable in your own skin, that kind of stuff, which really helped elevate their abilities as founders. Again, all through doing, not just like they didn't sit in a room and somebody said, This is how you breathe. They stood in a circle, he showed them how to breathe, then he helped them breathe, and then he got them to do lots of it, you know, and and then uh showed them how to project their voice in the strongest way because of the breathing, that kind of stuff.

Theatre Skills And Storytelling For Pitches

Gianluca Memoli 17:41

I think the uh uh the learning that theater can give to founders. So I am an amatorial thespian, and the uh uh a lot of the interactions were uh mutuated by theater skills. So it if I had to recommend someone to try something out of the box would be to try experience a theater uh background, not a I wouldn't say a to say a speech or a dialogue background, but try actually theater because your body is part of the of the game.

Stewart Noakes 18:18

Huge, right? It's huge. It's a it's a great uh weapon in the in your ability to effectively communicate. You can say an awful lot without actually saying anything.

Gianluca Memoli 18:28

You can indeed. You can indeed. And the the other interesting bit is the uh there is another part in theatre which is storytelling. And storytelling is a long, a large, is probably the ace that every successful founder has to play when it's needed.

Stewart Noakes 18:50

Well, because particularly at the beginning, you don't really have much else other than the story, right? But you've got to be good at telling it. Now you you were a people's choice winner this year at City University, and part of that was your theatrical skills, right? So you were you were singing at one point in getting the others engaged. I know I wasn't at that edition, but people who were still talk to me about it and uh and how much they enjoyed it.

Gianluca Memoli 19:15

That was part of the game, and the uh if it's true that you have to stand out as a founder, eventually they say be yourself, but be yourself means also uh your quirkness, let me call it that way, your a special being there. Because if you did the step of becoming a founder, you're already a special person. And why not sharing that? And part of that for me was uh sharing my musical theater bit, part of that was presenting my products like a magician's game. Uh, so yes, there was a theatrical part in that for sure. But the comments that the the uh the people sitting, so it was very interesting to see the dynamics of the uh of the demonite because the comments that the uh the ads got were in that direction. So be more theatrical, be show us more, give us more of the dream, give us more of the big vision, and at the same time, be yourself and use it.

Stewart Noakes 20:24

And it's interesting you're uh you know, you've got a research background, a PhD background of deep technical founder, and then you're talking to me about storytelling and theatrical ability. And in most people's stereotypes, you just wouldn't be that guy, right? You would be much more detail-oriented, you would be much more about the technical facts of things, you wouldn't be elevating into a story. What why do you think you've got all these different qualities going on?

Gianluca Memoli 20:51

Um, I think uh it's just recognizing them more than um, I don't know why I have all these qualities. I am I'm a curious person. I've been doing a lot of things that I like uh and trying to enjoy them. So one one theater uh teacher once said that uh Gianluca is the person who, when he finds something that he likes, he goes down full into it, full full speed. And that's maybe the reason. The question is what you learn, what your body learns, what your voice learns, what your face learns, uh, and all these things are then useful as a founder. For instance, uh, sorry, I didn't tell Stuart about this, guys. So let's see what he does. Okay. So uh I like board games, and yesterday I was at a charity event uh where they were selling board games for charity, and I bought one which is called Pitch Deck. Yeah, okay. Yeah, and this one is it says Pitch Deck is a game about convincing your friends to invest in the Most ridiculous startups imaginable.

Stewart Noakes 22:03

That sounds like my idea of a good time. Okay.

Gianluca Memoli 22:10

So I will be using this. So we have interns these two weeks. Um, again, as part of returning and part of the fact that you have to recognize your skills. Uh, we have a 16-year-old as interns here in Metasonics, and uh, we will be playing this.

Stewart Noakes 22:26

Okay. And that's a real game, though. That's not just a one-off, that's something people can buy uh commercially, is it?

Gianluca Memoli 22:32

Yeah, yeah, indeed. Indeed.

Stewart Noakes 22:34

Okay, I'll have a look for that after. Thanks for dropping that one in.

Hospital Trials And Customer Reality

Stewart Noakes 22:38

And can you are you happy to talk about any of your biggest challenges since you started being a founder? Maybe on the personal development side or maybe on the product itself?

Gianluca Memoli 22:47

I think I mentioned already something on the personal development side. Um can you help me with some questions, maybe, Stuart?

Stewart Noakes 22:57

What about what are your most difficult the challenges you face?

Gianluca Memoli 23:02

Okay. Right, on the product side, for instance. And again, I hinted to that earlier in this chat. The we went in the hospitals during lockdown. Every time uh that we were allowed out of our houses, I was in an hospital to try our products. So I've seen a version of the pandemic that as a technical person I was not expecting to see. Uh, and that hopefully uh no one of us has seen. Uh, but the feedback, the first thing that happened when I arrived in the hospital was how can I clean it? What's this? You should ask me what how silent it is, how movable it is, why are you clean? But that was the important bit. So one of the for them, otherwise, you wouldn't even enter uh an intensive care unit. So uh listening to the this was my first experience of the fact that uh when you become a founder, you have a lot of people who are your boss and those are called customers. And the and they decide there is nothing to say. And he what if you are not there, you're not there, you're not selling. You might have the fantastic product, but no one will come. So uh spending time with the customers is uh was my first important lesson. I already mentioned the story about the jargon. Uh and then there is pivoting. So I wanted to do something for the hospitals, it was lockdown, it was my way of fighting COVID, it was my solution, it was my intuition. I wanted to get there, but eventually that market was far away because the it was not ready, or I was not ready technically or actually visually to get into that. So we started with offices. As an acoustician, designing an office is a nine because everyone uh takes the noise and prefers to stay home. In fact, after lockdown, a lot of surveys they must say that uh the noise is the top reason why people don't go back to the office or avoid shared offices like the one you are in.

Stewart Noakes 25:32

Okay.

Gianluca Memoli 25:33

Uh what do people do with it? They wear headphones like you're doing, so and uh or they wear noise canceling headphones, which in the long term might not be the real solution. We need spaces which are designed for people. And as acousticians, until a few years ago, we didn't have the tools, so the company starts and the direction it has taken it starts from a pain I knew very well. I'm an acoustician, I know that I'm if I'm designing an office, I don't know. I I cannot give you what you would like to have. Oh, I can, and that is the that was another part of the learning.

Stewart Noakes 26:17

Um how about we flip the question, Jean-Luc? What are your greatest joys about being a founder? Because it's it's not a straight line, right? It's not an easy path, but then there's obviously joy in it for you. What are your greatest joys?

Gianluca Memoli 26:30

I wanted to add one bit and then I'll go for the joys.

Cash Flow Lows And Founder Self Care

Stewart Noakes 26:33

Okay.

Gianluca Memoli 26:33

Okay, one bit is, and then there is cash flow. So cash flow is the moment when, so accurate into statistics in this country, company fail for the team, year one, for uh the product that no one wants, year two or three, and then because you are dreaming too big and you don't have the money to go to get there, and that's cash flow. Uh and while on paper, everything was smooth. In reality, it wasn't, and so when you reach a minimum when you seem to see, and I mentioned that already earlier, when everything seems to be crashing, and that's when you have to go back into yourself and start from the little bits uh of taking care of yourself to survive these moments. And Canopy and Stuart helped me with this, with this part, remembering that uh, as a founder, you are the person who has to grow before your company.

Joy In Demos Plus Advice

Gianluca Memoli 27:45

Now, Joyce, there is the moment when you see people saying, Aha, that really works, and and then they start telling you their incredible ideas about what else you could do with your product. So, you know, every time I go into a demo, uh, I know that I will come out with another 10 or 20 potential ideas of people who start getting the that now they can shape their acoustic environment like they want. Okay, and that starts from can you stop my husband from snoring? to um can you make sure that I don't get the adverse I don't want? So I think the the the greatest joy is with people.

Stewart Noakes 28:40

Amazing, amazing. Now, as you know, this podcast series is predominantly for first-time founders. So it's very important for me to finish up today by asking you the question you know, what is your best advice as a seasoned founder now of so many years? What's your best advice for a first-time founder trying to begin their journey today?

Gianluca Memoli 29:00

A lot of people will tell you how you could do this better than you're doing, but eventually uh being a founder is empowering and it's your decision, and you are the only one who can take those decisions. Um, they say something similar for parenting, but they also say that having a startup is having another child. So maybe there is a parallel there in that sense. So there is always someone who has done that and knows better, and some of them are real, some of them apply to you, but the people who tell you from the start you cannot do it, they're simply not for you.

Stewart Noakes 29:40

Fantastic. Thank you very much, and like for sort of sharing your perspective on the world today, and thank you for all you've contributed to the community over the last couple of years. It's been great to have you in it and great to see you in the People's Choice this year as well.

Gianluca Memoli 29:52

Thanks, Stuart, and thanks to the community for all I got. Every time I go to a meeting, I learned something, and that is extremely important, especially from the young guys. Because I'm a dinosaur Stuart, we know that, right?

Stewart Noakes 30:05

Hey, the learning's in multiple directions all the time, right? Everybody's got something to learn and everybody's got something to teach, and it's amazing. You know, we're of a similar age, and I feel like I'm learning every day as well. So it's uh it's a really lovely community to be part of.

Gianluca Memoli 30:18

Excellent. Thanks, everyone. And I hope I didn't throw in your um series as the last one, which was not easy, wasn't it?

Stewart Noakes 30:27

Yeah, the launch pad for next year. Everybody's gonna be one notch higher than Luca Arcade. Happy days. Thanks, Feen.

Gianluca Memoli 30:37

Amazing.