What If Your Home Nudged You To Be Present

We sit down with Steve and Andy from Bristol to hear how a pocket money conversation turned into Toggle, a home device and app designed to help families put phones down and reconnect. We dig into their Manchester University backed pilot, what they have learned from running businesses for decades, and the mindset shifts that make early-stage products actually work. 

• the origin story from “learn to earn” to a family wellbeing product 
• why screen time is a whole-family issue not a child issue 
• how Toggle aims to build better habits through presence and rewards 
• the 50-home pilot and what scientific backing could unlock 
• lessons from the print trade about cash flow resilience and adapting fast 
• how incubators and expert networks fill skills gaps in marketing and digital product 
• practical founder advice on staying open-minded taking feedback and not fearing failure 

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Transcript

Welcome And Meet The Founders

Stewart Noakes 0:00

All right, fantastic. Well, season five of Famper Friday continues. Guys, who are you and what are you working on? Introduce yourselves for everybody.

Steve Baker 0:09

Um, it's Steve and Andy. I'm Steve. And I'm Andy. Uh, and we're working on a project project called Toggle, which is a family well-being project, uh, a device for the home to reconnect families.

Stewart Noakes 0:23

Okay. Now, by the accent, I guess most people will work out that you're from somewhere near Bristol, right? Do you want to give some of the backstory to how you two are co-founders and and how you got started on this project?

Andy Bird 0:35

Yeah, sure. So we've worked together. So we've I own I own a print finishing business in Bristol. Um, have them for 37 years. Uh Steve worked with me now for 20 plus years. Um, we've got a couple of other businesses in in sort of um that are linked within the print trade box manufacturing and notebooks. Um, and we've come up with this idea just through uh Steve being the ideas man basically. Um, so he comes in most mornings with a new idea, um, and most most of them uh tend to don't even make it past our production meetings. Um on this occasion we decided to pick this one up and come with it, and it's been uh it's been really a really interesting journey.

Stewart Noakes 1:28

And this is nothing print related though, as an idea, yeah. So I mean your conversation is also quite far reaching when you're having these uh idea sessions in the morning.

Andy Bird 1:36

Yeah, very much so. So uh yeah, yeah, they they they go from it just about every corner of uh of everything. So the ideas don't just uh just just sort of uh come from a print background.

From Pocket Money To Puzzle Pay

Stewart Noakes 1:51

Oh, right. So inspiration, tell me what what triggered this one off in the uh ideas phrase?

Steve Baker 1:56

There was a conversation with my um my eldest daughter who's just gone up to senior school, um, and she wanted pocket money to buy lunch and everything else. So the conversation was at her age, you can't just have money, she needs to earn it. And uh the conversation led on to what Toggle started out as initially. Um, the company's called Puzzle Pay, because we were gonna make a learn to earn app. So I said I didn't want to be spending too much time cutting the grass and uh doing the washing up because these years are quite important for what she's gonna learn and it shapes her future. So the learn to earn app came about where she could um basically do some math challenges and earn screen time and earn pocket money kind of thing, but that's now evolved into what toggle's become, and that's where it all started, yeah. Which was not not quite a year ago, so we made um so within that within the last eight months, um toggles or puzzle page changed to toggle, and we believe we've got a much stronger product out of it.

Stewart Noakes 3:12

Now, obviously, I've seen you guys uh pitch this to folks, and I've seen the device and stuff, but it's sort of outline for anybody who's watching this and doesn't know

What Toggle Does For Families

Stewart Noakes 3:20

you guys. What actually is the idea? How does it work?

Andy Bird 3:25

So it's an idea that um it's dealing with probably the hottest topic out there at the moment, which is uh screen time and and and the amount of times that people are on devices. So um this is about trying to get people to put their devices down and reconnect as families. There's a social well-being element to it, um, as well as trying to tackle some of the uh some of the habits that we're all guilty of doing, which is uh to to pick up our devices and go down to looking at the phone but talking to somebody at the corner of our mouth, kind of thing. Yeah, exactly, and be more present and be more. So we're we're trying to deal with that those things, and it's uh it's uh we we've got a device that we're looking at, which is linked to an app. So people put down their devices, they also start to earn rewards which are linked, potentially linked to um other activities, companies on and third parties to give them incentives to connect two things as a family.

Steve Baker 4:36

Yeah, I think when we looked at the the springtime issue, um it was being semi-solved in various kind of ways. Uh family link by Google and lots of other products that basically they kind of blame children as a child issue. Um, I think we were quick to realise it's not just a child issue, it's a whole family issue. Adults are just as bad. Um, and there's lots of products out there aimed at individuals, but nothing for families. So we come to the conclusion that it was a whole family issue and it should be solved as a whole family issue. So we're looking at so rather than fixing screen time, we're looking at reconnecting families. So screen time then becomes a pre-cre uh becomes a side effect of it. So get devices down, spend more time together, devices are down for longer, families reconnected, everyone wins.

Stewart Noakes 5:34

So

Building A Behaviour Change Pilot

Stewart Noakes 5:35

is that your perfect dream? And does that happen now in your household now you've got this uh this toggle device?

Steve Baker 5:40

Um I I have tried it, and with surprisingly, um well, we're actually going to a pilot. So in September, um, we're gonna roll out a 50 home pilot. This is being backed by Manchester University. Um, so it's gonna be an actual uh a study um done by someone we met who was part of uh what was the Bristol Children of the Nineties. Yeah, so there's a study called the Children of the Nineties, which is is still ongoing, it's been going for 26 years, and one of the doctors who was heavily invested in that is running the pilot for us. So we're gonna find out if it works or not. But we're we're um we're pretty sure it will.

Stewart Noakes 6:28

This is quite a journey from having a chat in the morning about your idea to the point where you're now working with a research project on basically social engineering.

Steve Baker 6:36

This is yeah, so yeah, so it's uh is but it is about behavioral change. So something that yeah, originally could have been an app to just help people out is now gonna be a scientifically backed product, um, yeah, that we hope can take over the world.

Andy Bird 6:53

It can potentially potentially be installed in most homes around the world, just like your Alexa's and things like that. So it's um it's on a bit of a grand scheme. So whilst uh yeah, a couple of uh couple of likely lads from Bristol come up with some some solution, but in fairness, it we all our research and everything else we've looked at at the moment. We've we think we've uh and everybody we speak to all seem to be getting on board with some we've looked at we've um found a solution to a massive problem, a one potential solution.

Steve Baker 7:29

And obviously we're supported by canopies, that's squared, so we're surrounding we're surrounding ourselves with people who can help.

Andy Bird 7:36

Yes, so that's uh the areas of expertise that we haven't got, we're looking to and you got a great response from the demonite, right?

Stewart Noakes 7:45

Which is how you got voted the people's choice on that evening. It was uh it was a good evening, there was a lot of high caliber stuff going on in the room, and everybody thought you were their favorite, so that's a good sign in itself.

Steve Baker 7:55

Yeah, it was fantastic, and um we're at the moment we're learning to be a bit more um poor facing with the people, um and yeah, it was good. Uh, I think the positives were people instantly understood it. Um, and a couple of people said because we're building it as a family device, but there's no reason it can't be used for couples. Uh, one comment was this would work perfectly for me, my boyfriend, and the meetings we've had regarding um the study. Uh, we've also told this could work for the NHS. Um, someone we've got helping us who's it's sick form said this be perfect in a sick form. So without even thinking about it, it is nice to see people putting it in places that places they think it could be used, which is fantastic.

Entrepreneurship Lessons From Print

Stewart Noakes 8:46

Now you guys have obviously known each other for a while and you've done some businesses, but you know what what gives you gives you the inspiration or the comfort to go into business in the first place? Like, is this something that's been in your family background or are you kind of outliers in your own in your own family units?

Andy Bird 9:03

Um yeah, but yeah, personally an outlier within my family. So um I started in when I was 24. Um always had a vision it uh I could I could do something better, different. Um and also run the business differently. It was a one more about people. I think folio as a business, our main business is about the people. We all work together close quite closely. Um my first uh accountant had written a book on accountancy and asked if he could a few years ago asked if he could reference me within his book when he came to see me and introduced to our business. He said he walked into the office and asked how I ran the business, opened a drawer, unfolded four sheets of A4 paper stuck together with cellotate, and he said, On that, on those four pieces of paper, everything you need to know how to run a business. Uh and he said it was this instinct for, and I've I've done that ever since. I've run the business business from a cash perspective. If cash is uh, if if you run it from a cash perspective and cash is there, then the profits will follow. Too many people get caught up on profit and losses. At the end of the day, the thing that the lifeblood of any business is cash, so and from there on in, uh rest of it is all been self-taught, really. Um, and made many mistakes along the way.

Stewart Noakes 10:27

Um, most important thing is such a thing as a perfect game, right? But uh the fact that you're still going 20-30 years later is uh is a testament to how well things are going.

Andy Bird 10:37

Exactly. In in an exceptionally difficult sector that is gone through a massive transformation, so it's like anything else, you have to evolve along with it, adapt, evolve, and look for opportunities along the way. Whenever there's been a setback, I've always looked at any setback we've ever had and look for the opportunity within that setback. So, in amongst every negative, you've got to find a positive, and that positive is a reason to get back out of bed the next day and bang fight.

Stewart Noakes 11:05

Get going, absolutely, and you've always got a new idea coming in in the morning, right? Absolutely, absolutely. You've got to you've got to look for those. Yeah, there opportunities everywhere. And and do either of you have any sort of uh education background in business or

Learning By Doing And Work Ethic

Stewart Noakes 11:20

entrepreneurship or any mentors or anything like that that helped you?

Andy Bird 11:24

Um no, I wouldn't say no, not certainly from an education point of view. No, my dad forced me into this trade when uh when I left school because I finished my exams. He didn't want me sat around all summer, so he forced me into a print job um rather than uh loaf around and then on in. Everything else has been self-taught for me personally. Um probably the same as yourself.

Steve Baker 11:51

Yeah, I I was only educated to GCSE level. Um same kind of thing as Andy. I did a works, I did a week's work experience at a print company. I was um 15, and uh I can always remember getting home on the Friday. Uh they asked me if I wanted to do any weekend work if it popped up. Um, and as a 15-year-old wanted a bit of extra spare cash, so I said yes. And I think I was home about an hour when the phone rang, and they asked me if I bought a book at 12 hours Saturday and Sunday. Um, so as a 15-year-old, I just said yes. And I can remember popping in on the way home from school on the Monday, and I'm giving me a little envelope when you used to get your wages in a little brown envelope.

Stewart Noakes 12:37

That was a nice feeling when it was really tangible, like you could do stuff with that envelope.

Steve Baker 12:41

It was the most money I'd ever seen in my life. So um when you were when the opportunity came to uh they offered me a full-time job then when I left school. Um and I didn't really at the time have anything in mind I wanted to do, so it seemed like a good thing to do. So the money was good, yeah. Money was good back then. Um, and if you apply yourself now, is it it can still be quite good, but yes, we still have those same idols in ethics, those business.

Andy Bird 13:09

Yeah, I think we come from this similar sort of background in that respect. You know, you get up and craft, um, and those opportunities, and then look for the opportunities along the way, whether that's progress up through the the management ladder or opportunities that come along, like I had where we I started my own business. So it's a you it's about those opportunities, they'll come along, you either take them or don't take them. So it's better to uh yeah, it's better to have a regret of having tried as opposed to have regrets asn't having not tried.

Stewart Noakes 13:44

So fantastic.

Andy Bird 13:47

We've had we've had many business ideas, a few business ideas. We've had a we've made a few attempts at some of them, some of them fell at the first hurdle and we just gave up. There's uh at the moment, we've got a couple of other projects on the go that we've put on the back burner because this is because this is taking a burst, a huge amount of time, but also has a huge amount of potential, and it's something we're hugely passionate about. Certainly the social aspect of it as well, as this year of madness of potential that it has if it were to take off.

Stewart Noakes 14:21

Imagine if you installed this in the White House for Donald Trump and his family to actually put their devices down on the way into dinner. That'd be amazing, wouldn't it? So before we open up to the opportunity for you to ask me questions, anything you want, um, I was gonna ask you guys, you know, what are you each good at that you compliment each other in? What are you good at that maybe the other one's bad at?

Steve Baker 14:47

Um I think definitely from a business perspective, us and is uh and is bit. I seem to be the ideas man. Um, I don't do it on purpose. I think it's probably mainly from the day job, so I run production and as a print finishing company, we rely on people bringing work into us on dates they say they will, and then they never do. Um, so it's a bit of a juggling act every day. So I think in terms of problem solving, that's one of my forte's because I've had to do it for over 25 years on a daily basis. Um, so I think when I see something, and yeah, I think I I think I could do, I think I found a way of doing that a little bit better. There's a problem, there's just problems, and I like to solve them. Whether I want to or not, it just happens. I find myself waking up a bit three o'clock in the morning, just with a new idea.

Stewart Noakes 15:43

But you're concentrating. You say that with a smile on your face as well. Some people say the problems, and there's a grimace, and there's a frown, and there's a forehead brow, and you're kind of like, Well, there's problems, and I just like we do, we do like a challenge, we do like a challenge, and it's uh and in amongst the difficulty, and and that's the thing, we you know, we we all work together and solve those problems.

Andy Bird 16:04

Um and like Steve said, I think you know, I'd probably bring the business now to it and financial planning and various other bits and pieces. So we we complicate complic complement and complicate each other well, complement each other well as well. So, yeah, so uh I think it works works very well in that respect.

Stewart Noakes 16:25

Nice, very nice. All right, here's the moment. Ask me a question, anything you

How Canopy Incubation Started

Stewart Noakes 16:30

like, I'll do my best to answer it on the fly.

Andy Bird 16:32

Okay, so so how do you how do you get into how do you get into canopy? How do you start canopy?

Stewart Noakes 16:38

Uh no, great, great question. So Canopy started back in uh 2014 in Somerville, Massachusetts. Uh, me and a couple of co-founders pulled it together. Uh, Matt, who was the originator of the idea, what he identified in Boston was really that there were a lot of silos, people working in their own little niches, and we were like the 58th incubator to go live in the city. And what he wanted to do was get people who had the same mindset together, even though they were all in their own little silos, but bring them under one roof, this kind of canopy connected piece, like we're all connected in this or under this canopy or in this canopy as he used to put it, and he would then mix them up in this in with the same DNA, kind of he wanted to activate them around certain things. So we were talking about algorithmic discrimination, we were talking about homes and busted and stuff like that. And so if I get the smartest people I know with this kind of DNA and I give them these kind of problems, I reckon something really awesome could happen. Uh, and also it was much more interesting to see what ideas people came up with when you put uh a founder of a tech company with an artist with uh somebody running for state senator, you know, in a in a space. They all talked about really interesting things from different perspectives and came up with new ideas together, and that was kind of the secret source. Uh, and it was fun, right? You know, one of the things we did was we had um in the first space, we hosted a whole load of uh artists who did cartoons. They literally write uh did the graphic novels and stuff, and we had all the superheroes all around the walls in the in our space. We had this paint which was quite specific from Boston's called the idea paint, which is basically coated all over all the walls, and then you could draw on it and you could wipe it off like it was a whiteboard, and our walls were literally worth hundreds of thousands of pounds where these artists had like put all this stuff up and around, but you daren't rub up against it because it would just smear off sort of thing. It was kind of insane. Um, yeah, but that's that's where it all began. And um, Matt's wife Kelly drew the logo of Canopy, uh, and uh and it stayed to this day. Um and Matt and Kelly are still out there in uh different part of Massachusetts now. Uh but yeah, that was the inspiration for it. And our original keynote when we launched, a guy called Non Chomsky gave the original keynote talking about the role of innovation with peace and international security, and Matt put together some amazing uh things around uh what happens in prisons and how uh rehabilitation does or doesn't happen, and how you can actually be innovative in the way you you deal with people's psychology in those spaces as well as the police force and stuff. Yeah, it's quite quite a privilege to be part of.

Steve Baker 19:09

How soon was it until you moved to the UK and what other countries do you uh yeah?

Stewart Noakes 19:15

I mean, uh the sort of main stretch was out to Portugal. So I was living there for a couple of years and I actually didn't want to do anything canopy in Portugal because we were doing things and having our ups and downs and stuff in Boston, and it just felt like a bit too much. Um, but then three or four people got together and kind of encouraged me to do it, and they got involved in it as well. And we uh, even though I didn't have a visa to be in Portugal, and none of us have bank accounts and stuff, we managed to blag a building together or floor in a building, and we got a load of friends in together, and we all painted it up and uh and then started a sort of co-working space and then started doing the incubation things on top of it. Uh, and so Portugal became a bit of a destination. We did a first test event where we got like 65 people into a room and did our first demo night and sort of had a few drinks afterwards, and that proved that we could get going, and that's all went from there. Um, and then the UK happened partly because I am uh uh British, and um we had an opportunity to help the Science Park annex to do some stuff and begin. They were sort of like a lot of empty buildings at the time with maybe 20 or 30 percent occupancy, and we brought the canopy recipe in and ran our events and uh took over a bit of the co-working space there and sort of gave people free membership to come in and be part of the community. And by the time we'd finished, they were at sort of like 70-75% occupancy, and it was sort of flying along quite nicely. Uh, I think it took us about a year or so of just doing our thing there. Uh and it sort of grew and morphed and moved around, and COVID messed with us quite a bit, um, taking things more remote rather than in person. Um, but we're still here sort of 12 years later, doing our thing. Uh yeah, it's been it's been fun. There's um according to the the thing I looked at this morning, there's 860 founders in the community at the moment, uh, in one way, shape, or form,

Marketing Matters More Than You Think

Stewart Noakes 21:00

doing something to do with their startups or just finished or exited or whatever. Um, and about 120 in the virtual incubation program. So, in terms of size, we're actually one of the biggest incubators in Europe, which is uh insane considering that it's basically one man and his dog half the time, and uh a few interns here and there, and uh loads of people volunteering to actually pull it all together. It's uh it's quite special, actually.

Andy Bird 21:23

It's a good network. We had a we had a good couple of meetings with um with a couple of your guys actually, so yeah, really, really interesting, really insightful. Um you spent time with Pedro yet? Yeah, we we had a we had a call with Pedro, it was very good. Um we've got this we just got so many things going on. We we need to diarize a follow up. Um who else did we have a call with? The other guy was um I can't remember his name, name, sorry.

Steve Baker 21:51

It was um was the American English Portuguese English. English, yeah. It was the uh say like the app. App chat, what we're calling. Yeah. It was a chat about um yeah, building uh building the back end of stuff in uh apps in stuff like that. But yeah, I sort of meetings we've had with everyone is just is things that are a little bit out of our comfort zone to start off with, uh in terms of marketing and digital product, every everything. And every meeting we've had, we've come up come away with um come away buzzing with some new information that could guide us in a different direction, or so it's fantastic.

Andy Bird 22:36

Each one's helped to shape us and build the build the project, and so yeah, we've taken something from everything, so it's all just superb.

Stewart Noakes 22:44

And I think you got in quite early on as building those incubation plans as well, didn't you? So I don't know if that's been useful to you or not, but that's been one of our initiatives uh over the last couple of months. Which one? Sorry, the the it's like a slide deck of all the kind of people you could meet and all those things.

Steve Baker 23:00

Yeah, yeah. No, and like you say, even with Satsquare, same kind of thing, you just you look we'll be I I think even marketing. We had a discussion with someone in marketing, which is something we thought we don't really need to think about now, but we had a meeting and it and it shows you do like even from the stage, if you're not even if you're not going to be selling anything for six months a year, you need to we need to work out who your target market is to start off with because um that could that you help you design your product, it could lead you in one way in terms of design because it it suits that market a little bit better. So, yeah, every conversation is is fantastic, and yeah, we're like sponges and we should soak all up when I did my MBA.

Stewart Noakes 23:47

My marketing professor absolutely laboured the point that he thought everything in business was marketing. He was like, if you do your marketing right, everything else holds together, and the root of everything should be marketing. And he was like, he went on and on about it. But the more I do with this stuff, the more I think you might have actually been right.

Andy Bird 24:02

Oh, yeah, we we see there were a couple of other projects we've had, and yeah, without any shadow of a doubt, it's the marketing is is key. It's essentially yeah.

Steve Baker 24:10

So we we built uh an award-winning um notebook business, paper notebook, uh not digital, and yeah, award-winning. Um and trying to get any traction with it, so difficult, even though we were in um in the press and everything else, just trying to keep the keep the ball rolling. So as as to say, is um, yeah, we we've learned that we need to do a little bit more, even in terms of um social media and stuff. Um we need to be a little bit better.

Andy Bird 24:47

Just understand it, you know. It's it's tall as one thing, which is which is um the product is only one thing. Yeah, if no one knows about it, they're not gonna buy it. Yeah, exactly.

Stewart Noakes 24:57

So it's so we take little bits from everything we do. Well, and sometimes you make it blue, right? But the customer wants it purple, and until you make it purple, they're not gonna buy it. It's the same thing, it's just a different colour, but in their mind it's a different value because of that colour.

Steve Baker 25:13

Yeah, but the whole thing. Yeah, which I think the pilot we're running for toggle, especially with the science behind it, um, is gonna help shape the product because it's gonna be people are gonna tell us what they like, what they don't like, whether it should be purple, uh, whether it should be pink, and um, you can just take all that information in and make the best product you possibly can.

Stewart Noakes 25:37

And I I sometimes mention the colour thing because I don't know if you remember what when Manchester United used to play in grey shirts, yeah. They used to concede more goals and they used to miss more passes. And yeah, they couldn't pick each other out with the grey, wasn't it? Was bizarre, wasn't it, right? And you just think, oh, they're wearing football shirts, right? Sure, they should be fine. But literally the colour made all the difference to the exact exactly right. So I'm gonna ask you like what's next for you

Funding Plans And Product Roadmap

Stewart Noakes 26:05

and where are you gonna take this? And then the last thing I'm gonna ask you is uh, you know, the famous godparent question what's your best advice for a for a first-time founder that's watching this? So let's go with the exciting bit. Like, what's what's next for this idea? What three months from now, if we do another interview, where will you be at?

Andy Bird 26:21

Well, by this time, by that time, we would like to think we've then got some funding. So we're now doing, as Steve said, we've we've got uh 50 families that we're going to do a trial. We'll get the data back from that, which hopefully becomes proof of concept. Um, at that point, we've got investor meet um pitches lined up to once we've got that information, and then from then on in, it'll be into looking to kick it on and take put into real life.

Stewart Noakes 26:55

Are you doing the whole SCIS investment stuff in the UK?

Steve Baker 26:59

Yeah, we're at SEIS. Um, so that's all gone through. So, yeah, we're ready.

Andy Bird 27:06

By the end of this year, early part of next year, we hope to be yeah, one truly underway. So we're moving quite moving moving at quite a pace when you consider you know this is a this is our sort of uh side hustle at the moment. Absolutely, yeah. Um, but yeah, so it but it and um and we we've also learnt to be able to try and slow down a little bit in the process, um and uh trying to get it all done within a rec break neck speed, but you've you've got to put all the pieces together, so we've had to go back and revisit on numerous occasions, realign ourselves, rethink strategies. So, but we're yeah, we're we're we're moving at a nice pace at the moment that we feel we've we've got all the various bits and pieces, so but even in terms of the main business, we've been working um working on what it would look like without us.

Steve Baker 28:03

So, as toggle grows and we need to spend more time on toggle, um, how the main business building the team behind the scenes to be able to take over, so yeah, it's all many plates spinning at the moment, it's all good, it's fine.

Andy Bird 28:22

Nice, nice. I just I just I just dread him coming in with another idea tomorrow.

Stewart Noakes 28:27

I think you should keep those ones quiet for a little bit, right?

Andy Bird 28:31

He has had a couple, we have about to put on the back one. We've got a lovely one for greetings cards, yeah. We do, yeah. We've got yeah, that is a good one. We we will be pushing out with that one. But so yeah, so that that that's that's the next stage for us now. Uh, we were quite really excited about we had uh probably had a sort of stall of a couple of six weeks or so, uh no, less than that, four three or four weeks where it's felt like it was stalling and stagnating, but now we're kicking on again, so so based on discussions, meetings, and uh being able to put the ideas to to life.

Steve Baker 29:06

So that's and I think some of that was a canopy night as well. Um so I've stalling or the moving forward, the moving forward, yeah. Um, no, to actually take in, even though it was a very basic prototype out, and um were not extremely good at pitching or speaking, as you can probably tell from this podcast. Um but if people instantly got it, and everyone could see it in their homes.

Andy Bird 29:34

Um, so that I think that was something that yeah, picked us up a little bit, and we thought almost proof of concept in some ways in a smallest in a smaller field. But yeah, so we just now need to get all the various bits and pieces. There's a lot to piece together in terms of the hardware, how it looks, what it looks like, how it'll work. There's lots of pieces together in terms of the app in the background and how that's going to work, and how how we finally deliver that in terms of whether we uh gamify it and rewards and various things for the kids, and and then other bits and pieces for the adults. So there's a there's a lot, many many plates spinning in the background, but uh yeah, no, we're we're none of it making removing make the progress we're making now. We feel is on the right track and it and it's good, solid progress.

Steve Baker 30:19

Yeah, and none of it is insurmountable at all. Is um I think even though there's more to come, we've kind of done the hard yards and we kind of we know exactly what we need to do and what the product should be. Um, which has been we've had many, many discussions with many, many people, uh, everyone with different opinions. Um so it was just bringing it back to the main DNA of the product and saying this is it.

Andy Bird 30:49

That's what we're drilling down into now is the DNA of the product, and you know, making sure that we've got it's it we covered all that all basis and it's got the correct data evolving views, yeah.

Stewart Noakes 31:04

Yeah, absolutely. And I you know that I love doing the demo nights in Bristol, and I particularly love doing the speed date format that we did when you were there. That for me is my favorite thing, and I think when you test with so many groups so quickly, you get a really good bit of feedback that that lands. You see, there's a lot that people give you, but actually you land the core points that you have to kind of take forward after that very quickly. It's uh it's my favorite energy uh event for sure. I much prefer it to the ones where people stand up and kind of give this perfect pitch in front of you, and you're kind of like you then have to give them comments or critiques or whatever. I think it's great. All right, look, you guys are pretty seasoned,

Advice For First-Time Founders

Stewart Noakes 31:40

you're pretty experienced in business, you've got two amazing or multiple things going on at the same time. What is your god parent kind of advice for a sort of 22-year-old first-time founder watching this today? What should they be thinking about, or what should they be doing?

Andy Bird 31:56

So uh I would say um always remain uh open-minded, never be closed-minded in terms of if you've got a product or you've got an idea or you've got something, always remain open to um adapting that throughout the journey. So, what might your vision might look like from the outset? Surround yourself, get as much advice as you can possibly get, surround yourself with the best people you can possibly get, um, and remain open-minded to to change and adaptation. Um what might have been the original concept of thinking, like it was with ourselves, what we've ultimately ended up taking on and running with is completely different. Um, uh, at times there's been a little bit that you all I think because you uh it's your idea and you you've spent a bit of time on it, sometimes you're reluctant to change or resistant to that change. If you had a vision, this is what you think you've done, you spent a bit of time working on it, and then somebody comes along six months later and says, No, I think this will be better. Um, always remain open-minded, take as much advice as you can get, and try and surround yourself with the best of people. But if you're areas where you're not strong, try and find people that will that can give you hints. You know, the incubator programs are perfect for that. The amount of people within there with with the expertise that you haven't got and drawing that resource is is is invaluable. Amazing, and then have a solid have a solid business plan and make sure it's uh it's gonna make money.

Steve Baker 33:36

And I think as well, don't be afraid of failure because like Andy said, I wake up every other day with a different idea. Um, and it's only took probably about 526 to get to one that is actually any good. But I think that's without those other ones, then we wouldn't be where we are.

Andy Bird 33:56

So I think that's called the law of averages. Yeah, if you have enough of them, this one's gonna be a good one.

Stewart Noakes 34:02

Oh, very good, very good. Thank you very much for sharing your story today. I really appreciate it, and uh you know, congratulations to you for the People's Choice Award winner, but also thanks for being a role model within the community and showing people uh there's just so many different ways to succeed, right? And uh it's quite incredible. Yeah, love that good luck to you. Thanks, Joe. Thank you.

Andy Bird 34:24

Yeah, thanks, and I look forward to catching up further in the future.

Stewart Noakes 34:28

Yeah, fantastic.